9 Responses to “Sermon for February 5”

1.  Anonymous  on 9:12 AM  

   I think in every generation people have mixed this up. It's a tough one, because we are cautioned not to sin --and sometimes Paul lists those sins for us.
   
   But there are things that each generation thinks lead to sin or are bad -- things NOT to do. Now, this wasn't the bent of what you said in "requires more than Jesus requires" -- that is the circumcision issue and I may come back to that later. But this is the saying you can't do something that doesn't really matter, and that is just as wrong for Christians to do.
   
   My father didn't want any of us kids to dance. I was the oldest and I think I was the only one who went along with him on that, and I regret it now. I caught my mom, who danced before she met him, walzing a broom around the kitchen one day. "It was silly," she told me. "I love to dance. I should have at least insisted he dance with me at home." His argument -- being that close to someone else leads to lust leads to sex etc.
   
   It isn't so bad today as when I was younger with stuff like whether or not you can drink alcohol or smoke or play cards or wear makeup, but at one time those were all issues, too. Churches have divided over the "do not"s that they add -- like whether or not instuments are ok in worship and the role of women.
   
   As I think about the equivelent today, I wonder if saying you don't think someone should drink Starbucks or eat junk food would fit?
   
   There is a difference between dispensing wisdom about life and saying something is a sin, or is necessary for salvation.
   ********************************************************
   Slightly different topic...
   
   You know, Paul made an interesting distinction as he worked with his two main young preachers, Timothy and Titus. Timothy came from a Jewish background (at least his mom was Jewish)and Paul quietly circumcised him -- my guess is it was convenient. It make it eaiser for Timothy to do his work, go with Paul into synagogues, not be questioned by Jewish believers, etc.
   
   But then Paul took Titus with him to Jerusalem and he MADE A POINT of NOT circumcising him because people were insisting he should. When they pushed to add to the gospel message and said it was required he put his foot down and said, wait a minute, now you are asking something wrong.
   
   So I think we can bow to convenience if it helps us make the message palatable for people -- until they imply that something they want added to the gospel is required. Then we have to say no, stand up for the simple truth of the gospel.
   *******************************************************
   Okay, one last related thought.
   
   I get really upset about how Christians treat people who are gay. This is in another realm -- because we ARE told that it is sin to be sexually active with someone of the same sex so this can't be ignored completely. But somehow in the popular "Christian" talk of the day, this has become the one sin everyone wants to attack. You don't hear many radio preachers talking about the people who are compulsive gossips and who hurt people through their words. Most of us have family members living with someone they aren't married to and so that would be too close to home to talk about. Lying -- well, let's not go there, surely a little white lie doesn't matter.
   
   Don't get me started on greed and envy and how our materialistic world is a kind of idolatry that we all buy into to some degree without even realizing it.
   
   How come we act like the rest of us aren't sinners?
   We need to back up and get humble about the fact that none of us have reached the perfection of Christ in the way we live. We fall every day.
   
   I think that the way that many speaking in the name of Christianity have attacked homosexuality has made it very difficult for anyone who is gay to even consider opening up to faith. What a shame! None of the rest of us gave up all our sins before we came to Jesus, a sinner, and He forgave us. I don't know about the rest of you, but God is still working with me on recognizing things I need to change, and I've been a Christian for forty years.
   
   For most of us, we come as sinners to the cross and then, as we turn our hearts over to Jesus, he convicts us of the things that we need to change. I've seen this happen in many lives without confrontation from other Christians regarding the sin. Gentle teaching, prayer, study, discipling helps all of us let go of the things that trap us. As Paul described in Romans 7, we all carry around some weight as we struggle to let go of the worldly things that bind us. And as he said in Romans 8, thanks be to God that He can deliver us.
   
   The expectation that a certain segment of the population disavow their sin BEFORE they come to Christ is a controversial "add-in" to Christianity that I can think of today, and we need to give some thought to how to approach people who have been hurt and shunned and told in almost every way that they are unacceptable to Christ and His church.
   
   Paula

2.  Anonymous  on 3:43 PM  

   I aggree with Paula. We are all sinners saved by grace. If we had to get rid of our sin first then none would be saved. Jesus did say that it is not the healthy that need a doctor when he dined with the tax collectors.
   
   All Christians have to be careful of how they treat others, because if we tell one certain group that they must change first and then come to Christ we are surely "adding" to the gospel message.
   
   To God all sin is equally bad and that is why all of humanity needs a savior.

3.  Anonymous  on 4:16 PM  

   Thanks for that direction on the homosexual issue. Valuable observation there. It bugs me also. I've got an excellent chapter from a book by Tony Campolo about that also, if you are interested.
   
   Also, I think you are correct about the possible "rule" about buying products from Starbucks. There is no biblical foundation to say that it is a sin. I think those kinds of things shouldn't be "rules", but personal decisions based on a person's understanding of their role in God's Kingdom. Does that make sense? What do you think about me saying that by talking about those personal decisions that it opens the door for coversation about how we can develop a holistic faith? That sould accurate?

4.  Anonymous  on 5:57 PM  

   I agree with Paula as well. I have discovered the more that I am living on my own the more confusing things become. I was just dicussing the issue of what is consider appropiate in Gods eyes and in mans eyes. The idea was that humans have a difficult time diciphering the difference of what God wants on the gray areas. Paula mentioned about how christians treat guy's, this is a very sensitive area for most people and often times I have been asked what do I believe when it comes to their relationships. I answer, I love the person and hate the deed. The problem is I don't know if humans can do that very successfully.
   I have tried and often find myself in uncomfortable positions. I do my best by trying to include them in conversations, but loving them is a whole new idea. Often times I see the world and GOd all mixed up. My thought are read by God and with this in mind I try to think of not the sin I could commit, but the sin I have commited and how I am to change that. My thoughts are not my own, but often wonder into the world looking for ways to make them my own.
   I remember once when a lesbian was attracted to me and I prayed about it, asking God for guidance of how I was suppose to act and respond to her actions. This was not an easy task because I wanted to say that God loves and eventually I did. When I responded this way she brushed it aside as if I never said anything at all. I was then invited to a party, well, I wasn't sure on what to do because I was reachin out to her to try to see life through Gods eyes. I had first invited her to a church picnic, similiar to our church, and she said she would go. After seeking out advice from my elders and praying about it I had decided not to go. SHe became angry and yelled at me saying that she wasn't going to go to my event. Then the conversation continued with me accused of not understanding, being judgemental, showing hatred, and being inconsiderate of the feeling that were being felt.
   Through this experience I almost don't know how to respond to certain issues at hand because the gray areas are gray. Those gray areas have also become worldly and I am not sure which way to steer. Seperating my human instinct from myself is an ongoing job because trying to see the things through Gods eyes is almost out of reach, serialism, and so distant.

5.  Anonymous  on 10:05 PM  

   Most of this comment is going to be experiences with anything that may be somewhat related.
   
   I totally understand what Reha is saying about the grey areas and what God's view on them may be. I just try not to think about it too much so I really haven't developed a good opinion on that. : )
   
   What I have thought about is one of the things that Reha said..."I answer, I love the person and hate the deed." I think that saying you hate the deed may bring a lot of negative feelings to some people because for a lot of sins, I thought that people identify themselves with them. Not just homosexuality, but practically any sin. Alcoholics, Liars, self-mutilators, gays, potheads, etc. People will identify themselves with these sins, some embrace the title, others may not realize it...but they do, in a way, associate themselves with it. Granted, there are going to be some who may not at all, and even deny the title...but for the ones that do, this is what I am talking about. For example, I once used to identify myself with being a cutter. That was who I am. I embraced them name, it made me feel accepted into a type of community. I could relate myself to them, and it was comforting. Not realizing it, but I think that putting this title on myself seemed to be holding me back. And if someone were to say that they hated the act of self-mutilation, I would feel insulted, because I was that. Many people would most likely feel insulted, especially gays because they certainly do title themselves as that. It is their lifestyle, therefore, it is who they are.
   
   I remember being in high school and seeing the people that led Students With a Testimony...I saw who they were at that very moment, how holy they made themselves seem. How the way to solve every single problem was only just to pray about it. That was it. I don't know if that is the only way, I know it is a way. Perhaps I do not have as much faith in prayer as I should, but that's a different topic. Anyway, I would somehow stumble upon one of their secrets about their lifestyle. They would never admit it to anyone that they were not close with. I also remember one of the leaders asking me, "Are there any sins in your life today? If you were to die now, would you go to heaven?" I was always very confused on where he was going with these questions, and he always scared me.
   
   I think that this is a big thing with a lot of Christian leaders-they have a tendency to scare people. I know that there is a good type of fear, when people fear the Lord, but I can't quite explain this one. I dunno.
   
   One of the hugest things that bothers me is when poeple are judgemental to the point that it makes you not want to be a part of what they are a part of. I don't want to sound like I am gossiping, but I have family members that claim to follow Christ and the teaching from church, but seriously, right on the drive home, I start getting yelled at and get guilted into something even after the sermon that was saying how guitling your children isn't the best way to get them to do something. He saif, while we were there, that he really found the sermon to be interesting and that it really made him want to change some of the these he does. Its like he does not even try to do better. It's amazing. I have a family that loves God and say that they focus their life around Him, yet sometimes, they are the ones that are the quickest to judge me. They are the quickest to tell me about all of my sins, that I am not wearing enougb clothes...in the summer...around the house that I am supposed to feel the most comfortable in. It's strange. It's sad to say, but I think that this is some of the reason that I had stopped attending church. This is some of the reason that I strayed away.
   
   They say that they are part of Christ body, and if everyone else acts like that, then why would I want to be a part of that?
   
   Not only just people within my own home, but people at church. I realize that not everyone is perfect and that everyone is, in fact, human, so they are going to be making just as many mistakes as the non-believers. I think that this may be something that people claim to realize, but their actions do not prove it. I think that I had a problem of thinking that God is only at church. Well, I didn't think that directly, but now that I realize it, that is how I had acted. I talk about how it was hard to grow at that church. I really don't think that the church is what makes you grow because all of the resources were there to grow. But, the people at church will sin, and I just happened to come in contact with some of the worst of them. Worst by the worldy view, of course. Some of my most painful memories come from church. My peers there were so misdirected. What was worse were the ones that were active in the church, so you may percieve them as a follower, but they really didn't prove it behind closed doors. I can't go into detail about all of this...
   
   But I think that a lot of people that I have came in contact with weere some people that would relate to the Line at the end of Colossians 18.
   
   It is so weird all of the rules that some Christians have now came up with. You have to go to church every sunday, like that specifically is going to be the thing that determines whether you are going to be going into heaven or not. I understand that attending church, being involved with the church, going to Bible studies, reading the Bible, and praying are all very healthy things to do, but I think that some people have turned them into things that are like a ritual to them. It may have lost it's meaning. You have to write certain type of poetry because the poetry that you write is too dark. So, at one church, I was not allowed to express myself openly on the internet so that I could share it with my friends. That was a strange request. It almost seems as though a lot of the things that other people are asking of some is for them to no longer be human. I realize that there has to be some control over the things that happen, but not everything.
   
   Also, what a lot of Christians do is that they remove themselves from the world. We are still living here, surrounded by evil things, you can't escape from it, so don't act like you can. Only seeing movies that were written by Christians, only listening, watching and doing non-secular things. I don't think that it is possible to take the world out of us, so why do some try so hard? Just listen to the Christian music station. Hear only their views on topics or on movies. They see the movie for you and tell you that it is bad so that you don't have to witness such evil.
   
   I think I just babbled a lot. Oh well. Just some thoughts. Dunno how relevant they are. I have a tendency to go off topic and just rant. Heh. : )

6.  Anonymous  on 5:00 PM  

   Wow, it is so great to hear everyone's experiences. Reha, I really appreciate what you said about things being grey. I think that wisdom come in part from recognizing that life is not as simple and black and white as we thought. We say we follow what the Bible teaches but sometimes this artificial thing that is called Christianity in our culture confuses the pure Gospel and teaching of Jesus. And though Jesus didn't speak to us about many of the specific things we deal with -- like abortion, for example -- he showed us how to respond with love to those who are hurting and if we cling to that I think it will help us through the fog.
   
   On the abortion issue -- I have half a dozen friends that I know have had abortions, one when she was married, most when single. As they have revealed this I can see their tension, their expectation that I will see this, too, as too great a sin. One friend, Thea, even told me one time that she couldn't go to church with her sons because God would never forgive her. When I attempted to correct her assumption, she told me how, after her abortion, someone had followed her, gotten her personal information (she thinks from her car license plate and with some connections) and called repeatedly to ask her why she had murdered her baby and to tell her she was going to hell.
   
   When the public message of what calls itself Christianity is this kind of message, is it any wonder that many women who have had an abortion assume they cannot be accepted for forgiven?
   
   I think this is another very public, very concrete way that our Christian society has added to the Gospel message in a negative way, and souls and the Kingdom suffer.
   
   This is what False Prophesy is, isn't it? Saying that God says something that He doesn't say?
   
   I have a great sermon from a friend on the issue of False Prophesy, if anyone is interested. He tackles this very issue.
   
   Tom, I would love to read Campolo's take on this issue. Too bad that in speaking out against a political agenda callings itself Christian, Tony seems to have faded a bit. I'd like to reconnect with what he's saying because I've appreciated much of what he's said in the past.
   
   So the chapter -- or the name of the book -- would be great.
   
   Paula

7.  Anonymous  on 5:31 PM  

   I decided to post that sermon or most of it. My friend preached it partly at the Martin Luther King, Jr. remembrance, and with the recent death of his wife it is timely again -- not that it ever went out of style.
   
   It's long, so if you aren't into reading a sermon just skip this entry. Paula
   
   1. A medical test can give a “false positive” or a “false negative.” So also w/FP’s (False Prophets)
   • The “false positive” FP preaches a too broad message of hope and comfort
   o Those FP’s who make Christianity sound easy, sometimes tying everything to one or two flagship issues (such as abortion or homosexuality), & otherwise not wanting to offend anyone
   o They pronounce God’s blessing and comfort on sinful, covetous ways of life
   o In short, this FP teaches “Things are OK,” “All is well,” when this isn’t true.
   • The “false negative” FP preaches a too narrow message of hope and comfort
   o This “negative” FP proclaims that God has washed his hands of someone, eternally condemned them, when he has not
   
   • The news from the past year has been dominated by disasters – for example:
   o The Tsunami in Indonesia area
   o The earthquake in Pakistan & surrounding region
   o Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans & nearby gulf coast
   o The death of the miners in West Virginia last week
   • In all of these cases & others like them, well known figures who claim to speak for the Lord have claimed to see the hand of divine judgment and punishment for sin – for example:
   o Mr. Phelps from Topeka’s Westboro Baptist Church
   o Mr. Dobson in Colorado Springs (Focus on the Family) on Katrina as punishment for tolerance toward homosexuals
   o Mr. Robertson of 700 Club on Katrina and Israeli Prime Minister Sharon’s stroke, etc.
   • I am provoked above all to preach this sermon today by these outspoken and influential messengers of hate and judgmentalism.
   
   SILENCE ABOUT THIS PROBLEM IS COMPLICITY IN THE DAMAGE THAT THEY ARE DOING!
   
   One last intro point: These are echoes of what faced Dr. King in 50’s-60’s
   
   1. Shamefully, opponents of Civil Rights movement claimed to speak for Christianity
   • KKK
   • Persecution of Clarence Jordan & Koinonia Farms
   • Ministers argue “God’s will” based on “curse of Ham” (Noah story in Genesis)
   • “Upstanding citizens” who murdered civil rights workers and covered for each other until very recently
   2. January 16, was MLK Holiday
   • Whole week since filled w/activities and programs to honor him
   • This sermon today is offered as part of this week of honoring this great Christian man
   
   
   FIVE SCRIPTURE-BASED REASONS TO BE RIGHTEOUSLY INDIGNANT ABOUT WHAT THESE CONTEMPORARY CHRISTIAN SPOKESMEN ARE SAYING
   
   A. Jesus warns us not to interpret disasters as punishments for sin
   1. Luke 13: 1-5 (The Message) is as clear as you can get about this.
   
   About that time some people came up and told him about the Galileans Pilate had killed while they were at worship, mixing their blood with the blood of the sacrifices on the altar. Jesus responded, “Do you think those murdered Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans? Not at all. Unless you turn to God, you too will die. And those eighteen in Jerusalem the other day, the ones crushed and killed when the Tower of Siloam collapsed and fell on them, do you think they were worse citizens than all other Jerusalemites? Not at all. Unless you turn to God, you too will die.”
   
   Then he told them a story. “A man had an apple tree planted in his front yard. He came to it expecting to find apples, but there weren’t any. He said to his gardener, “What’s going on here? For three years now I’ve come to this tree expecting apples and not one apple have I found. Chop it down! Why waste good ground with it any longer?”
   
   “The gardener said, ‘Let’s give it another year. I’ll dig around it and fertilize, and maybe it will produce next year; if it doesn’t, then chop it down.”
   
   2. There are at least three lessons for us in this passage
   • One lesson is that those who suffer calamities are not worse sinners than others
   • A second lesson is that we’re no better than they are, that God is simply being patient and extending chance after chance to repent and become fruitful
   • A third lesson is that Jesus is challenging the smug background assumption about ourselves, that since this didn’t happen to us, then God must be well pleased with us.
   
   B. We are warned everywhere not to be selective about sins, as if there were one or two “biggies” – such as homosexual behavior – and the others are loveable faults to work on if we get around to it.
   
   1. For every passage anyone can find about homosexuality, I can produce dozens that condemn greed, acquisitiveness, the love of power and high position, worldliness, pride, envy, divisiveness malice, hard heartedness, lack of compassion for the poor and the suffering, and smug self-righteousness.
   
   2. And they are mixed in the same lists with sexual sins, as if equally serious. (see Ephesians 5: 3-14, Colossians 3; 5-11, Galatians 5: 16-24.)
   
   3. It is an understatement to point out that all of us are sinners
   • The fall has corrupted and twisted this universe from the molecular level on up, and conditions from cancer to distorted sexual urges are just two of countlessly many blemishes due to this. Sin is deep-down twistedness, not a matter of breaking a few rules.
   • Let us recall that the first stone is to be cast by the sinless person! (see John 8: 2-11.)
   • So to call on God to punish sin with thunderbolts and hurricanes is to volunteer to be struck by them!
   
   C. We are ordered by the NT to love everyone, just as God does
   
   1. In the Sermon on the Mount, we are told to love even our enemies, to imitate God who blesses both the good and the evil with his gracious gifts. (see Matt. 5: 43-48, Lk. 6: 27-38.)
   
   2. Jesus did not wait on us to quit being sinners before dying for us, but “While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us” (Rom. 5:8), and as he hung on the cross, he prayed for the forgiveness of those who were murdering him (Lk 23:34).
   
   3. If we are to imitate our Lord, we must not wait on others to reform to treat them well and love them. Indeed, making sacrifices on their behalf is called for, not hate-filled judgmentalism.
   
   D. We are commanded not to judge others (Matt. 7: 1-5, James 5: 7-11)
   
   1. Three places in the Sermon on the Mount make clear that the harshness of the standards that God will use in judging us is determined by the harshness of the standards that we use in judging others. (see Matt. 5:7, 6: 14-15, 7: 1-5.)
   
   2. Both the OT and the NT command, “Do not take vengeance,” and “Vengeance is mine, saith the Lord.” (see Leviticus 19:18, Deuteronomy 32: 35, Romans 12: 19.)
   
   3. Remember that the first stone is to be cast by the one who has no sin!
   
   4. & Do not rejoice or gloat when others suffer, whether or not they deserve it. (see I Cor. 13: 2-7, Rom. 12: 9-18, Eph. 4: 25-32.)
   
   E. We are to try to win others to Christ by leading conspicuously beautiful, lovely lives, not by hateful threats and denunciations.
   
   1. To “let our light shine” (Matt. 5: 14-16) is to show God’s transforming goodness and power in a way that attracts others to God.
   
   2. The most powerful evangelism that you can practice is to show the world what God has done and is doing in your life!
   • Endure hardships with a composure marked by peace and joy
   • Never lash out at others, but always respond with gentle dignity
   • Never try to get even, but always forgive
   • Never bear a grudge, but gladly grant everyone a fresh start
   • Always volunteer to serve, rather than expecting to be served
   • Be humble and open, counting others as better than ourselves
   • In short, SHOW the power & beauty of Christlike living, HAVING the “mind of Christ”
   
   3. When we learn to do these things, and not until then, will we silence the too-often just and accurate criticisms of Christians that are made by an observant, under-impressed world.
   
   CONCLUSION
   
   A. Our effectiveness as witnesses in this needy world demands that we openly, publicly confront this problem of “Ugly Christianity.”
   • Although you and I know that these self-appointed spokesmen for the Lord are not portraying our faith accurately, we cannot blame the world for thinking they do, if we don’t speak up.
   
   B. But our methods must be distinctively Christian methods
   • Here we learn again from Dr. King:
   • He and those he led were certainly not inactive and passive
   • Yet they were non-violent, never cursed, nor called upon God for the damnation of their tormentors
   • Just so, we too must be harmless as doves, but firm about standing up against these gross misrepresentations of our God’s word and will
   
   C. So let each of us resolve, as God gives us the opportunity in the days ahead, to do these three things:
   • To openly challenge the vengeful and loveless proclamations of people like Mr. Phelps and Mr. Robertson
   • To demonstrate the transforming power of God’s love by leading beautiful, loving lives that lure others to Christ by their attractiveness
   • To seek out the unlovely – those who are used to hearing only condemnation, hate, and abuse from Christians – for special works of generous sympathy, hugs, and friendship – not that we may be drawn into their way of life, but that we may offer them a loving, helping hand into that better life that we, by the Grace of God, have known

8.  Anonymous  on 9:45 PM  

   "we grow only as we get our nourishment and strength from God" That passage reminds me of how important it is to seek God by reading my Bible and praying. To often I ask Him to help me be closer to Him yet I don't take the steps to grow our relationship. How can I expect to grow closer to Him if I don't really know or talk to Him on a regular basis. I can't help but to call my Mom almost every other day and yet the one who saved me from being alone for eternity get talked to or read about much less. I know for me there are times where I will read my Bible and pray daily for a few weeks or a month at a time and then I just get busy and stop. I wouldn't ever stop calling my mom because I am so busy yet I stop talking or reading about my Heavenly Father becuase I am busy! This verse is a great reminder for me of getting my priorities straight and realizing that if I really want a closer relationship with my Heavely Father then I need to get busy trying to get to know Him better.

9.  Anonymous  on 9:20 AM  

   first a few verses:
   1 Corinthians 8:9
   Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak.
   1 Corinthians 8:8-10 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 8 (Whole Chapter)
   1 Corinthians 10:23
   [ The Believer's Freedom ] "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is constructive.
   1 Corinthians 10:22-24 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 10 (Whole Chapter)
   1 Corinthians 10:29
   the other man's conscience, I mean, not yours. For why should my freedom be judged by another's conscience?
   1 Corinthians 10:28-30 (in Context) 1 Corinthians 10 (Whole Chapter)
   I strongly believe in the believers freedom -- meaning -- as the apostle Paul puts it -- "Everything is permissible"—but not everything is beneficial." but I also strongly believe when Christ told us to Love God and Love Others -- meaning -- as Christians we are to not only serve God but also to serve others -- even when what they think is true is not true. There is only one truth and that is Jesus Christ -- everything else is made up by man. For example -- would it benefit my brother or sister who struggles with overeating to take them out to lunch at Hometown Buffet -- NO -- we would be setting them up to stumble and in their hearts -- to sin -- because that is an area of their life that has control over them. The same thing goes if I was to take someone who struggles with adult beverages to a bar. Neither the buffet or the bar are evil and both are permissible but both are not necessarily beneficial. The bottom line is that we must think of others first.

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